Talk:Joystick

US 1,597,416 discribes a RF distant control system and does not have any even remote relevance for joysticks. Something is wrong with the reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.43.49.103 (talk) 14:48, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Invention of the joystick

I removed the following from the main article:

"The first 2-axis joystick was probably invented around 1944 in Nazi Germany. The device was developed for targeting the glide bomb Henschel Hs 293 against ship targets. Here, the joystick was used by an operator to steer the missile towards its target by radio control. This joystick had on-off switches rather than analogue sensors.

This invention was picked up by someone in the team of scientist assembled at the Heeresversuchsanstalt in Peenemünde. Here a part of the team on the German rocket program was developing the Wasserfall rocket, a successor to the V-2 rocket, the first ground-to-air missile intended for shooting down enemy aircraft.

(In these times the device was not associated with any kind of joy so it was simply called a control stick.)"

I removed it because aircraft joysticks are 2-axis controls (they control the pitch and roll axes, just like the do in PC flight simulators). Given that, and knowing nothing about the Henschel joystick I have no idea what made it different from any other joystick. If anyone knows then please explain why the Henschel one was different and put the information back. DJ Clayworth 16:56, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I think what made the Henschel joystick different was that, as it says in the text above, it was the first 2-axis joystick. Thus it is of historic interest. Do you have any sources indicating an earlier 2-axis joystick? Nixdorf 06:24, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

"...aircraft joysticks are 2-axis controls..." So an earlier 2-axis joystick would probably be any pre-1944 aircraft control stick. Unless control sticks in airplanes were invented later and all airplanes used yokes. If so, I stand corrected. EldKatt 16:44, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Another thing that makes the German joysticks significant is that they were electrical and "digital" (electric on/off) and transmitted their signals by wire (Henschel) and radio (Wasserfall), not by mechanical means. I will try to write this up and reinsert a better text. Nixdorf 10:38, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

You can access new images of Joystick at Polish Wikipedia at definition of Joystick (pl:Dżojstik).
I have added it to MediaWiki, so it is accessible for everyone at MediaWiki -pl:Wikipedysta:Piom

The B-24 Liberator (introduced in 1941) featured a side-stick joystick as an autopilot control - a small column mounted alongside the left leg of the aircraft captain. This enabled him to control the aircraft directly through the autopilot when flying in formation. It was an extension of the system whereby the bomb aimer exercised control of the aircraft in yaw when approaching a target. (see Coombes, L.F.E., "The Aircraft Cockpit – from stick-and-string to fly-by-wire", Patrick Stephens Limited, Wellingborough, 1990 ISBN 1-852-60281-3). Coombes does not state if this control was "two axis", but I see no reason why it should not have been - why else would a joystick be used? I am also sceptical, however, that even this was the first use of two axis joystick in any aircraft, when side stick itself dates back to the Wright Brothers. Anyone who has more detail is welcome to add to or amend Centre stick vs side-stick which I recently created. Wittlessgenstein (talk) 12:17, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Wrong reference: US 1,597,416 does not describe a joystick but some RF distance estimation solution. The reference is wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.43.49.103 (talk) 14:50, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Boats

Don't modern ships use joystick-like controllers for manual navigation? If so it would be unsafe to call this a game device.

Origin debate

quoted from Nytimes week in Review, June 5, 2005: As for the debate over who invented it, Mr. Esnault-Pelterie has an interesting rival. In 2001, after the H. L. Hunley, a Confederate-era submarine, was pulled from the waters off Charleston, S.C., archaeologists discovered that it had a sophisticated single-stick steering device. A state senator from Charleston, Glenn McConnell, made a claim on South Carolina's behalf. "This could be the world's first joystick for navigating a vessel," he crowed.

Innuendo?

A joystick resembles a penis. Dosen't the phrase in the article They were fixed to the floor of the aircraft and stuck up between the pilot's legs, hence the name imply that it looks like am erect penis? --SuperDude 04:45, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Just about anything shaped like a straight line resembles a penis. Why couldn't we have evolved with a more distinctive shape of male genitalia to avoid such obsession of finding penis symbols? — JIP | Talk 19:37, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

The idea that the word 'joystick' is a phallic innuendo does seem to carry work, especially when you consider that it's placed in the 'cockpit'. Blaise Joshua 12:16, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

The word Joystick has been used for genitalia on an HIV/AIDS awareness poster. The poster (which I've searched in vain to find an image of) featured the following in 3 frames...

• Top image: close up of man's boxer shorts. Caption: Joystick
• Middle image: close up of woman's panties. Caption: Playstation
• Bottom image: close up of Human Immuno Virus. Caption: Game Over
• Footer Caption: Play safe, use a condom (or words to the effect, I forget exactly)

Furthermore, as anybody who has ever played the home computer/console versions of those joystick waggling sports games of the 1980's will recall; clutching a joystick to your lap and rapidly pulling it with your other hand did look a bit like male masturbation.

I wouldn't obsess about it too much. Go and edit the Freud page if the idea makes you feel uncomfortable. GordonTG 02:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

i think i remember once listening to a song that for chorus had a bassy voice saying somthing like "come play with my joy-stick", by the context it was obviously referring to the male genital, a "joy stick". --TiagoTiago (talk) 20:23, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

With a couple of citable references, this could be included couldn't it? --trevj (talk) 12:04, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Atari

The formerly ubiquitous Atari standard joystick really deserves an article to itself. I would do it myself but don't know enough about the issue. --Mmartins 03:57, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Point Of view Hat

Can anyone write a section on this, or give me some sources to do it? lunarsurface

There does exist a page on that topic: Hat switch, it's just a really small stub. - Eptin 08:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

See Coolie hat, below.—Quicksilver^{T @} 22:39, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Broken origin citation

The citation link for the origin of the name dubbed by Robert Esnault-Pelterie is broken. Can someone find a more permanent citation? dq 13:31, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Coolie hat

Coolie hats are mentionable - these are the little up-down-left-right d-pads on the top of some joysticks. --Abdull 22:07, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Coolie hats are most often associated with 2-axis, 5-position switches. Such switches may sometimes be found on aircraft joysticks or heavy machinery joysticks, but the switches themselves are not called joysticks.—Quicksilver^{T @} 22:39, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Suggested move to "flight controller"

I suggest this page be moved to Flight Controller to avoid possible phallic connotations. James Callahan 23:18, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

A note to other editors: this is James's idea of humour, per his other contributions. Chris Cunningham 00:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Are you stalking me, Mr. Cunningham? I assume you are trying to assume good faith, as per WP:AAGF, so allow me to point out that singling someone out and branding everything they say as not to be taken seriously is unproductive. As a good faith editor of Wikipedia, like myself, I presume you will take this advice to heart and get off my back. James Callahan 05:47, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

This would probably be funnier if I didn't already have to deal with editors who think bringing up WP:STALK and WP:AAGF all the time is a neat trick for avoiding criticism. For the benefit of others, the only contact I've had with James previously was a revert to the infantile addition of a phallic connotation into an article once upon a time. Chris Cunningham 08:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I've never read WP:STALK, but when a user I do not know is telling people what my idea of humour is — something that only my closest friends understand — one can only assume that's what you're doing. Of course, that would imply that what you think my idea of humour is is correct, which it is not. By the way, if you would care to notice, the issue of phallic connotations has already been brought up earlier in this talk page. Calling me infantile is both POV and borderline personal attack. Also, your response would probably be funnier if every other inner party member didn't mention their subordinate's mention of these policies as a way of dismissing their claims. James Callahan 19:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I support Mr. Callahan in his worthy struggle against filthy innuendo. We ought to do something about Gaypad while we're at it. Drutt 00:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Throttle controller?

There is no mention on this page about the throttle/rudder controller or rudder peddles that are companion to higher end joysticks. I believe there needs to be a small section since there is mention of throttle and rudder controls on a single stick setup. At least a 'see also' link. Admiral grinder (talk) 17:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

What happened to the aircraft cockpit?

I was disheartened to find the aircraft cockpit joystick only as historical background in an article about a personal computer peripheral. While not disputing the contemporary importance of the home computer games-station, I think the historical background to the aircraft cockpit joystick, some of which is included in the article (and some more on this talk page), is fascinating and informative. I would therefore suggest that "aircraft cockpit joystick" might deserve it's own article. But I am unaware of any previous discussion (archived anywhere?). The existing cockpit article covers the joystick only minimally. In terms of the military fast jet, the controversial and topical subject of "centre-stick vs side-stick" also deserves separate attention, as does HOTAS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wittlessgenstein (talk • contribs) 21:24, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Anyone who has more detail is welcome to add to or amend Centre stick vs side-stick which I recently created. Wittlessgenstein (talk) 12:19, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Types of Joystick? --200.37.16.66 (talk) 14:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Merge

I don't think analog stick needs a separate article. It could easily be pared down and put as a section in this article. An "analog stick" is simply a small joystick. Asher196 (talk) 15:24, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree. There is no added value in two separate articles. On the contrary, as the term analog stick is ambiguous (could be a joystick with potentiometers or a joystick without a microcontroller) it is easier to gather information in a comprehensive article about joysticks.--Karawane 71 (talk) 08:52, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

A merger could be proposed, but executing it would take some considerable time/effort. --trevj (talk) 12:07, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

This was already discussed properly at the time on the analog stick page (see: Talk:Analog stick#Why is this article needed? Merge with Joystick). It was concluded that the scope of this article (which includes joysticks found in aircraft, use in industry etc) was such that a merge would be difficult and wouldn't really provide any benefit (it would make a long article which would contain a splitable section section on analog sticks). Notice this thread is almost a year old (May 2010). Alphathon /'æl.f'æ.ðɒn/ ^(talk) 13:08, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Bad example

Calling the joystick used to control the German Henschel Hs 293 glide bomb a "digital joystick" is technically incorrect. It was a 5-position switch arrangement, similar to a contemporary coolie hat switch, in which the center position was neutral. The ailerons of the bomb were solenoid-controlled, i.e., a "bang-bang" servo in control engineering parlance. The Henschel Hs 293 article describes the elevator as having had proportional control via a jackscrew, so that means the control could not have been "digital". The position of the elevator was proportional to how long the switch was pushed forward or pulled back, clearly an analog control function. I've removed the reference to it being a digital joystick. —Quicksilver^{T @} 22:39, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Strange edit

An idiot has edited this page and replaced "joystick" with "stick of joy". Can someone please revert back? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.201.244.59 (talk) 15:21, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

It has now been reverted. If you see something like that again feel free to revert it yourself - just hit the undo button on the history page - as long as there haven't been any following edits it should work fine. Alternatively you can restore a previous version (again there's a button on the history page). Something to note though, try to avoid calling people idiots etc (even when if you think it is obviously the case) as it could be construed as a personal attack (which is against Wikipedia's rules). Basically, try to stick to factual criticism not emotional/personal criticism (things like that not only encourage vandalism and arguments but are also irrelevant to Wikipedia). Alphathon /'æl.f'æ.ðɒn/ ^(talk) 15:38, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Joystick elements image

I think the inclusion of File:Joyopis.svg is very useful to the article. However, would it be worth considering placing it elswehere, so that a more generic image could be used in the lead? E.g. File:Joystick black red petri 01.svg --trevj (talk) 12:02, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

How many directions on a hat-switch?

Back in DOS/gameport days hat-switches on Thrustmuster and CH Flightstick hat-switches only allowed four directions (up, down, left, right), diagonals where not supported. The Sidewinder 3D Pro did add support for diagonals when used in Windows. That was 15+ years ago. How does the situation look today? Do all modern USB joystick have hat-switches with support for eight directions? Do hat-switches exist that support only two directions (up/down)? What about joysticks like the Saitek X52 that have numerous hat-switches, do all of them work the same or are there differences in terms of how many directions they support? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grumbel (talk • contribs) 11:37, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

History of Analog Joysticks

The article states “In 1985, Sega's third-person arcade rail shooter game Space Harrier introduced a true analog flight stick, used for movement.” The BBC computer used analog joysticks for games from around 1981.RichardRegal (talk) 23:43, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

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Status of the spacesim genre and gaming joystick market

Currently the final remarks on the flight-sticks use in video gaming is punctuated with the statements that the space-sim genre is a dead genre, and that the sticks have fallen to niche products. i feel that is is important to note that the space sim genre can no longer be called dead [if still niche] with star citizen being a game with one of the highest budgets ever raised, the popularity of elite and no mans sky, the genre is no longer dead. most importantly, due to the revival, the popularity of joysticks has increased and the companies that make them have begun new development into the controllers to take advantage of the new demand. there are also people who are now making custom sticks, or taking flight sticks from actual cockpits and modifying them to work as game controllers.

some links with info http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_US/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B0/thrustmaster-teams-frontier-s-elite-dangerous-new-gameplay-experiences-announced-new-t16000m- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.90.22.67 (talk) 00:26, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

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What is joystick

A joystick is a cursor control device used in computer games and assistive technology — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2409:4040:D87:4459:4A5A:3FFF:FE49:479E (talk) 15:23, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Should add a picture of a 1980s digital joystick (Too strong a bias towards analog joysticks)

All the pictures in the current edition of the article are of analog joysticks — perhaps with the exception of those depicting a rubber-domed “miniature joystick” on a camera. This is quite misleading.

Back in the 1980s, there was a strong consumer market of Atari-style digital joysticks for gaming on home computers, almost to the point of defining the word “joystick” (for the consumer market). These joysticks would typically allow the registration of eight directions in total (four cardinal directions, and also the four ordinal directions by the diagonal activation of two cardinal directions at a time). The best models used clicky, durable microswitches for registering the directions. However, no sample image of a joystick of this type is provided.

For instance, an image of the Kempston Microelectronics’ “Competition Pro” joystick, with clicky microswitches for the four (eight) directions, would be an illustrative example.

Digital joysticks were also ubiquitously used on coin-operated (arcade) video game cabinets, such as Pac-Man or the original Mario Bros., and can still be found in the market in the form of rugged control sticks for operating various industrial or heavy machinery. Jukka Aho (talk) 17:35, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Misleading bias towards flight sticks / aircraft control sticks

I encourage anybody on this page to please talk to a pilot if you think they call the sticks in airplanes 'joysticks' ... because they don't.

The word 'joystick' can be traced back to World War I, but since at least 1977 it has been primarily used to mean game controllers. The devices most frequently called joysticks are video game controllers less than 1 foot / 30 cm long. You will also hear the term 'joystick' used to describe much smaller controls such as the joysticks on some mobile devices and on some synthesizers.

The 1971 EMS Synthi synthesizer has a joystick which is about 2 inches long. The original manual uses the word joystick.

Ms Pac Man has a joystick which is about 3 inches long. The Nintendo 64 and PlayStation controllers have joysticks which are less than 1 inch long. These devices were all called 'joysticks' by the manufacturer.

When joysticks get big enough to be used for flight simulators they are usually called flight sticks by the manufacturer, not joysticks.

This article completely conflates video game joysticks, video game flight sticks, and aircraft control sticks.

The most recognizable/iconic joystick is the Atari VCS / Atari 2600 joystick. It's very odd that it's not the primary picture for the page on joysticks.

In 30 years of working with pilots and military contractors I have RARELY heard/seen aircraft control sticks called joysticks. Most times I have heard a pilot use the word joystick it was sarcastic -- such as referring to the side-stick of an F-16 as a little joystick.

And you will definitely not see the term 'joystick' used in any official documentation for aircraft.

In aviation it's called a control stick or just a stick. It's several feet long, and mounted through the floor of the aircraft like a big truck gearshift.

When the word 'joystick' is used in aviation it is used for the specific purpose of illustrating that something is smaller than the average 3-foot-long aircraft control stick. Waquel (talk) 10:42, 22 November 2023 (UTC)